Can some one explain the difference between the Wasmer and Wasmtime projects

亦凉 2022-09-11 06:14 13阅读 0赞

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27542118][https_news.ycombinator.com_item_id_27542118]

<table> 
 <tbody> 
  <tr> 
   <td style="background-color:#f6f6ef;vertical-align:top;">&nbsp; 
    <div style="margin-left:2px;"></div> </td> 
   <td style="background-color:#f6f6ef;"> 
    <div> 
     <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=arcatek" title="arcatek" rel="nofollow">arcatek</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27542118" title="87 days ago" rel="nofollow">87 days ago</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27540994" title="parent" rel="nofollow">parent</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/fave?id=27542118&amp;auth=711ba209c710be2f04933144ae2492758fd632ad" title="favorite" rel="nofollow">favorite</a>&nbsp;| on:&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27537541" title="Wasmer 2.0" rel="nofollow">Wasmer 2.0</a></span></span> 
    </div> &nbsp; 
    <div> 
     <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">- Not the same bakers (wasmtime is supported by the Bytecode Alliance nonprofit, which is behind the wasm specs, whereas wasmer is a startup)</span></span> 
     <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">- Not the same implementations, so not the same optimizations performances everywhere (you can see that a bit like clang vs GCC).</span></span></p> 
     <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">So which one to use depends on your tradeoffs. For me personally, I saw firsthand what an ecosystem tool could become once owned by a startup, and I would be very careful about this path.</span></span></p> 
     <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">There are more technical comparisons here and there if you look a bit (for example in /r/rust).</span></span></p> 
     <div></div> 
    </div> </td> 
  </tr> 
 </tbody> 
</table>

<table> 
 <tbody> 
  <tr> 
   <td style="background-color:#f6f6ef;"> 
    <table> 
     <tbody> 
      <tr> 
       <td></td> 
       <td style="vertical-align:top;"> 
        <div style="margin-left:2px;"></div> </td> 
       <td> 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=syrusakbary" title="syrusakbary" rel="nofollow">syrusakbary</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27542390" title="87 days ago" rel="nofollow">87 days ago</a>&nbsp;<a title="[–]" rel="nofollow">[–]</a></span></span></span> 
        </div> &nbsp; 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">I'll not enter on the technical comparisons but more on the philosophical view of your comment.</span></span></span> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">Somehow you are not wary of an organization that is 90% directed by one entity. It might be useful to know that 95%+ of the code changes in wasmtime are by people working in Fastly.</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">Google is the main pusher to Chrome, the fact that Google is a commercial entity doesn't make good or bad on how they move the ecosystem forward. It makes it more effective.</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">I'm usually wary and careful when people advise for software and commercial value to be separated.</span></span></span></p> 
         <div> 
          <p></p> 
         </div> 
        </div> </td> 
      </tr> 
     </tbody> 
    </table></td> 
  </tr> 
  <tr> 
   <td style="background-color:#f6f6ef;"> 
    <table> 
     <tbody> 
      <tr> 
       <td></td> 
       <td style="vertical-align:top;"> 
        <div style="margin-left:2px;"></div> </td> 
       <td> 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=arcatek" title="arcatek" rel="nofollow">arcatek</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27542533" title="87 days ago" rel="nofollow">87 days ago</a>&nbsp;<a title="[–]" rel="nofollow">[–]</a></span></span></span> 
        </div> &nbsp; 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">&gt; Somehow you are not wary of an organization that is 90% directed by one entity. It might be useful to know that 95%+ of the code changes in wasmtime are by people working in Fastly.</span></span></span> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">I'm not overly worried about some companies investing more in communities than others, that's true, as long as there's some level of oversight (those 5% you mention).</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">I also suspect that a lot of those Fastly employees you mention came after the Mozilla layoffs we heard about a year ago, which I think invalidates a bit your point as the responsibilities were then shared before being unfortunately moved in to Fastly in short notice. It makes sense it would take time to address that perfectly, considering the context.</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">&gt; Google is the main pusher to Chrome, the fact that Google is a commercial entity doesn't make good or bad on how they move the ecosystem forward. It makes it more effective.</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">That's not a great example - Chrome famously pushes changes without any oversight, which leads to useless APIs in the best cases to downright harm to their users in the worsts.</span></span></span></p> 
         <div> 
          <p></p> 
         </div> 
        </div> </td> 
      </tr> 
     </tbody> 
    </table></td> 
  </tr> 
  <tr> 
   <td style="background-color:#f6f6ef;"> 
    <table> 
     <tbody> 
      <tr> 
       <td></td> 
       <td style="vertical-align:top;"> 
        <div style="margin-left:2px;"></div> </td> 
       <td> 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=syrusakbary" title="syrusakbary" rel="nofollow">syrusakbary</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27542941" title="87 days ago" rel="nofollow">87 days ago</a>&nbsp;<a title="[–]" rel="nofollow">[–]</a></span></span></span> 
        </div> &nbsp; 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">It's funny because the oversight in a startup is usually much bigger than in a big organization (the 5% mentioned is usually much, much bigger).</span></span></span> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">Their success depends so much on community that if fails to deliver, it dies. Thus it usually listens much more carefully. While other big organizations don't have that issue (in fact, they can go on much bigger losses just to capture markets).</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">What I wanted to showcase is that at the end, power (which usually means a stronger monetary input, which translates to how many people can work and experiment on new stuff) is what leads most of the changes, even if those changes are masked as organizations pushes or what not.</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">And to reinforce, its great to see Fastly pushing forward and doubling down on WebAssembly. Same as is great seeing Google pushing forward on the W3C standards. The advancements doesn't make it good or bad per se just because it's lead by one organization or another. It's what is delivered what matters.</span></span></span></p> 
         <div> 
          <p></p> 
         </div> 
        </div> </td> 
      </tr> 
     </tbody> 
    </table></td> 
  </tr> 
  <tr> 
   <td style="background-color:#f6f6ef;"> 
    <table> 
     <tbody> 
      <tr> 
       <td></td> 
       <td style="vertical-align:top;"> 
        <div style="margin-left:2px;"></div> </td> 
       <td> 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=follower" title="follower" rel="nofollow">follower</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27543731" title="87 days ago" rel="nofollow">87 days ago</a>&nbsp;<a title="[–]" rel="nofollow">[–]</a></span></span></span> 
        </div> &nbsp; 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">&gt; Somehow you are not wary of an organization that is 90% directed by one entity.</span></span></span> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;"><em>I'm</em>&nbsp;wary about building on a project from a company whose CEO doesn't disclose they have a pre-existing grievance with the Bytecode Alliance related to:</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">1) Attempting to trademark "WebAssembly";</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">2) Inappropriate behaviour.</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">And who has previously:</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">3) Used sock-puppet accounts on HN in an attempt to Boost their project.</span></span></span></p> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">All of which I learned as a result of reading this thread:&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24900186" title="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24900186" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24900186</a></span></span></span></p> 
         <div> 
          <p></p> 
         </div> 
        </div> </td> 
      </tr> 
     </tbody> 
    </table></td> 
  </tr> 
  <tr> 
   <td style="background-color:#f6f6ef;"> 
    <table> 
     <tbody> 
      <tr> 
       <td></td> 
       <td style="vertical-align:top;"> 
        <div style="margin-left:2px;"></div> </td> 
       <td> 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=syrusakbary" title="syrusakbary" rel="nofollow">syrusakbary</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27543949" title="87 days ago" rel="nofollow">87 days ago</a>&nbsp;<a title="[–]" rel="nofollow">[–]</a></span></span></span> 
        </div> &nbsp; 
        <div> 
         <span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">Being wary about one thing should not make you less wary about another, imho.</span></span></span> 
         <p><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#828282;"><span style="color:#000000;">In any case, context matters. I will be very happy the day that we no longer need gaslighting as a way to push certain projects or ideas forward :)</span></span></span></p> 
         <div> 
          <p></p> 
         </div> 
        </div> </td> 
      </tr> 
     </tbody> 
    </table></td> 
  </tr> 
 </tbody> 
</table>

[https_news.ycombinator.com_item_id_27542118]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27542118